NullSec? Remove it. You want intel - then scout.

Only people who can't adapt will suffer.

Yeah yeah yeah, bro. Sure thing. EVE Online is the only MMO which sees a growth in subs year after year. I think there was only one time subs were less than the year previous - and most of those subs were recovered.

I am all for removing local... have been living in WH space for over a year so no local is not that scary any more.

To me this would suffice

People in your corp shows up instantly and have a nice green tag on them
Friendy people show up instantly but have no color tag for 60 seconds
Neutral people show up instantly but have no color tag... period.
Unfriendly people show up instantly but have no color tag for 60 seconds

People showing up by means of wormholes and black ops are not displayed in local at all for 30 seconds since they arrive by means that disconnect them from the gate network. After they reconnect they have the same 60 second identification time as anyone else.

More rewards = more risk/effort.

Deal with it.



Confirming that a few thousand dollars lost from the few aspies who multibox 20 man fleets would cripple CCP financially.

How would ganking become "super easy" if I can't see if I even have any targets in system?

Like what?

Then why do you live there?

Who says I hate SOV?

Targets that they don't know are there until they scout the system.

Your alliance doesn't have intel channels?

So then why are you whining?

Explain, from step one, how it's "obvious that I don't like SOV holding alliances."

Yeah, I'm sure that'll help when a bomber will be able to decloak, lock, and point faster than I can react.

I'd be PERFECTLY happy with just this.

And as far as cloaks go: if there's someone cloaked in system, I need to know at least that. I don't need to know who it is, or standings, etc. I think that if there's any way to avoid showing up in local, it should be on specialized ships that aren't able to fit offensive modules.

But with all things being equal and most mechanics in Eve having some sort of dark side, wouldn't that approach necessitate the introduction of a passive module that suppresses the onboard IFF equipment?
That is, more of a wormie behaviour (hidden until deliberate action) only with the addition of the required module.

Either way, I sincerely doubt any changes will be as inconsequential as 'hidden only under gate cloak' as it does not address the issue that a local change is needed to solve, namely: unlimited and effortless accurate intel at all times.

One could keep it simple and do a worm-K hybrid, having new entries show in local list as ????? and change it as information is gathered .. directional scan or probes would change ????? to "ship type/name" and eyes-on would change it further to include pilot name with ship type/name in hover text.

Yes I read, no arguments have been presented

FYI "I want to rat in perfect safety in nullsec becausebecause" isn't an argument

Local provides perfect safety. You rat aligned, and warp to pos/station/safe immediately when someone enters local. Perfect safety without any input from the ratter.

In the same way local provides perfect intel about fleet movements without any input from the scout.

If you're aligned you warp instantly.

All you have to do is click "warp" when anything appears on your Overview.

If you can't react fast enough, well, I guess you're **** out of luck.

Better is a rather subjective term in your use of it.

Your frequently presented ideas, by contrast, result in easier play. Dumbed down would be a fair description, since it requires less thought and effort to play, afterwards.
That is not better, in my opinion.

Competition is defined by effort, and by suggesting less be necessary, you remove competition itself by the same amount.

1) Enter site.
2) Move off warp in.
3) Align to celestial.

If a covops is able to catch up to you and bump you, they probably deserve the kill.

And I pointed out that there's already a group of players who rat under those conditions ("those conditions" being no Local and the possibility that there's a cloaky right next to you) - and they do just fine. You see in NullSec people whine about AFK cloakers and various "risks". In WH's you just assume there's already someone watching you. When you rat... you rat aligned to a safe. Or rather, at least I do. I've had Stealth Bombers and Proteui decloak next to me, but because I'm paying attention, I just click "warp" and off I go. My cursor is always on that warp button - or the DScan button.

When I shoot Sleepers, I have a very minimal need to take my cursor off the warp button - the only time I do is when I target a queue of like 8 Sleepers. But then I select my warp out point and the cursor goes back over the warp button. To shoot the next sleeper after the previous one has died.... wait for it... just hit the hotkey your weapons are set to. They will automatically activate on the next target you have in your queue... no need to click it if it's already targeted.

I'm sorry for your confusion. It's my fault for not elaborating more.

Is there some reason you can't change your alignment to keep the rats in range?

Then use off-grid safe, or to a POS, for your alignment?

I mean come on dude, really... use your brain a bit.

Maybe, but they don't have a MJD to jump 100km across a site. You can use the MJD to change your position in the site and then align. Now, I already know what you're gonna say, so I'll just nip that in the bud right now: You're not using the MJD to "get away" from someone when they decloak... you're using the MJD pro-actively (and not re-actively) to change your position to frustrate and deter any cloaky who may be there.

OH NOES MY RETRIEVER.

Nope, I actually farm in a PvE mission fit Drake.

Okay then don't.

Whether PvE fit or PvP fit you can already pretty accurately guess what the resistance of hole of any given ship is. And if they're tanked for a damage profile that their ship is not natively designed to tank against (ie a Raven farming Sansha) then it's not gonna matter what you shoot at them, because even their hole will only be about 10% lower than all their other resists.

Well there are literally thousands of people mining in the most dangerous place to mine these days: HiSec.

There are many areas in NullSec that see next to zero traffic as well, and you can "seal off" NullSec systems too.

You realize that it's not impossible to generate a safespot that is in fact not in alignment to a celestial from a given position....?

Dude you are just bad.

Look, if someone really wants you dead that bad, you're dead. But most roaming gangs are not going to put that much effort to catch a difficult target - especially when every second they hang around waiting for their scout to get tackle is a second closer to getting discovered and blobbed. You don't seem to understand how ratting and PvP works.[/quote[Sure I do. The PVP player wants to kill the ratter for an easy KB pad. If he needs to generate a couple of bookmarks (which in fact takes very little time) he can and will. You are saying this like it would be a chore to do. Anyone that's half competent could knock out a trajectory in a very short time.

[quote=Xuixien]You realize that the yield between T1's and T2's doesn't justify the cost of T2's, right? Like, the difference isn't really that big.

You do realize that with the exception of Minmatar and a very small number of Caldari ships, most ships have fixed damage type, right? Like if I'm in an Enyo there's really no way I'm going to "swap my loadout" to hit that Raven's EM hole... lol come on dude, you're embarrassing yourself.

I believe you originally said "seal off", not "shut down" - don't try to change your words around on me, boy. :) And you can indeed "seal off" areas in NullSec, it's called a gatecamp with bubbles.

"Waaaah, don't make EVE harder, I don't want to spend too much effort also I don't want to lose ships."

There's a difference between "can be done" and "will be done in a high enough frequency to be statistically relevant". While I can see someone generating bookmark to give a trajectory on, say, a ratting carrier that's aligned between two celestials... I do not see anyone except the most desperate doing so to kill a Raven or something.

Please tell me how many Caldari ships get a general bonus to missile damage rather than a bonus to missile kinetic damage.

(ProTip: You're better off firing kinetic missiles if you're kinetic bonused than you are firing EM missiles at a ship with a small EM hole. But this is really technical PvP type stuff and I don't expect someone who can't even figure out how to rat while aligned to understand. )

You are really, really reaching now.

Do you know what kind of damage unbonused AutoCannons get? Like 100. And that's paper DPS, not applied DPS. (ProTip: Applied DPS of unbonused ACs sucks). You'd be better off using Void in your example.

And? Having Local isn't going to save you from a Covert Cyno. You should stop posting.

If the tears being generated in this thread are any indication at the very idea that Local might be removed or altered, the tears are going to be EPICALLY GLORIOUS when CCP actually does iterate on the feature.

You're so mad and I'm enjoying every second of it.

By all means, continue to sperge for me on the forums.

That post was pretty ironic too.
"I'm going to accuse him of insulting instead of making arguments, so I can insult instead of making arguments."

But go ahead and claim victory. We both know this argument came to an end because you continually obfuscated the issue until someone slipped up on such an exceedingly minor detail. You've been wrong this entire time and we've been doing nothing but rebutting every single point you've made.

Possibly. I'm not bothering to check who was actually right or who said what on the autocannons thing, but it's really ridiculously unimportant to the actual discussion at hand.

Basically that other guy said that removing Local would be OP because PvPers can put AutoCannons on Enyos to shoot into resistance holes and this was somehow related to how you omnitank in a WH. (Let's nevermind the fact that if you're in a PvE fit and you're caught by a PvPer you're dead regardless of your resistance profile, mmmkay.)

Confirming that resistance profiles are very relevant to a discussion about Local.

Your arguments at this point is basically summed up as: "NullSec needs Local because we have resistance holes and stuff. People might put AutoCannons on their Enyos." Because apparently the only difference between a PvP ship and a PvE ship is it's resistance profile.

(Because let's nevermind the fact that if a dude in a WH can get 86% resists across the board and still do enough DPS to kill Sleepers, the strongest NPCs in the game, then a nullratter can do it, too.)

I never claimed to be an expert about anything.

But when it comes to EVE Online, I am pretty damned close.

Wait....

Are you suggesting that null ratters have different ships available to them?

For some reason, they cannot duplicate, or would refuse to duplicate, the across the board resist profile that was described previously as an omni-tank?

I simply seek clarification here, in order to better understand how this could support, in part as you say, why null and WH space cannot be compared here.

Hey according to James all you need to do to fend off attackers is to have an omnitank... so why not just omnitank your ship in the first place and not risk losing it?

Also if you have to put in so much work to make ratting in nullsec "meaningful" - why do it?

I eagerly await you displaying the ability to not lie and misconstrue my points.

So what you're saying is, if I had 0/90/90/0 tank, cool, but if I had like 85/85/85/85, I'd die?

Uh.



I'm not the best, dude. I'm just better than you. Get over it.

*whisper whisper* if a PvE boat is caught by PvPers it's dead regardless of it's resistance profile...

Yeah bro! You're dumb, bro. I'm just laughing at you, bro!

This is an assumption, that I refuse to support without logical reasoning or valid evidence.

In the many debates I have seen on this topic, not one bit of convincing foundational evidence has been provided, or logic that was soundly beyond convenience of the moment.

I get that players are used to local, and they are sometimes fearful of change.
I believe this is why local has persisted in this form for this long, CCP is being VERY careful how they do this.